nootrac90
2013-08-02 20:36:36 UTC
Discussion:
(too old to reply)
John W Kennedy
2013-08-02 21:28:54 UTC
If you mean the Inform compiler, no. Back when Apple IIs were
state-of-the-art, Infocom's proprietary ZILCH compiler, the nearest
thing to Inform at the time, ran on a mainframe, not a personal
computer, and Inform is much more complex than ZILCH.
If you mean, "Can an Apple II run games created by Inform?", I expect
that games created by older versions of Inform using Version 3 of the Z
machine can be run by interpreters available on the Apple II, but way
back then, Infocom games in Version 4, 5, or 6 did not run on the Apple
II, and modern versions of Inform, on the other hand, cannot create
games in Version 3.
Of course, on the general principle that all Turing machines are
equivalent, I suppose it could be done in theory, but it would take
/lots/ of work, and would be painfully slow. Remember, even an iPhone
is many thousand times the computer an Apple II was.
state-of-the-art, Infocom's proprietary ZILCH compiler, the nearest
thing to Inform at the time, ran on a mainframe, not a personal
computer, and Inform is much more complex than ZILCH.
If you mean, "Can an Apple II run games created by Inform?", I expect
that games created by older versions of Inform using Version 3 of the Z
machine can be run by interpreters available on the Apple II, but way
back then, Infocom games in Version 4, 5, or 6 did not run on the Apple
II, and modern versions of Inform, on the other hand, cannot create
games in Version 3.
Of course, on the general principle that all Turing machines are
equivalent, I suppose it could be done in theory, but it would take
/lots/ of work, and would be painfully slow. Remember, even an iPhone
is many thousand times the computer an Apple II was.
--
John W Kennedy
Read the remains of Shakespeare's lost play, now annotated!
http://www.SKenSoftware.com/Double%20Falshood
John W Kennedy
Read the remains of Shakespeare's lost play, now annotated!
http://www.SKenSoftware.com/Double%20Falshood
rpresser
2013-08-02 23:02:27 UTC
Well, apparently that's not entirely true. The *current* version of
Inform (Inform 7), as well as the previous one (Inform 6), do not
exist in ports for the Apple II. But the one before that, Inform 5,
does exist for the Apple IIgs:
http://ifarchive.flavorplex.com/indexes/if-archiveXinfocomXcompilersXinform5Xexecutables.html
Inform (Inform 7), as well as the previous one (Inform 6), do not
exist in ports for the Apple II. But the one before that, Inform 5,
does exist for the Apple IIgs:
http://ifarchive.flavorplex.com/indexes/if-archiveXinfocomXcompilersXinform5Xexecutables.html
John W Kennedy
2013-08-03 00:17:43 UTC
Post by rpresser
Well, apparently that's not entirely true. The *current* version of
Inform (Inform 7), as well as the previous one (Inform 6), do not
exist in ports for the Apple II. But the one before that, Inform 5,
http://ifarchive.flavorplex.com/indexes/if-archiveXinfocomXcompilersXinform5Xexecutables.html
Yeah, well, the IIgs is a II like a Chevilac is a Chevy.Well, apparently that's not entirely true. The *current* version of
Inform (Inform 7), as well as the previous one (Inform 6), do not
exist in ports for the Apple II. But the one before that, Inform 5,
http://ifarchive.flavorplex.com/indexes/if-archiveXinfocomXcompilersXinform5Xexecutables.html
--
John W Kennedy
If Bill Gates believes in "intelligent design", why can't he apply it
to Windows?
John W Kennedy
If Bill Gates believes in "intelligent design", why can't he apply it
to Windows?
rpresser
2013-08-06 20:32:29 UTC
Post by John W Kennedy
Not surprising; I have about as much experience with Apple of allPost by rpresser
http://ifarchive.flavorplex.com/indexes/if-archiveXinfocomXcompilersXinform5Xexecutables.html
Yeah, well, the IIgs is a II like a Chevilac is a Chevy.http://ifarchive.flavorplex.com/indexes/if-archiveXinfocomXcompilersXinform5Xexecutables.html
varieties as I do with Chevys. And I never heard the word Chevilac
until today. :)
a***@inbox.com
2013-08-03 10:19:36 UTC
Post by John W Kennedy
If you mean the Inform compiler, no. Back when Apple IIs were
state-of-the-art, Infocom's proprietary ZILCH compiler, the nearest thing
to Inform at the time, ran on a mainframe, not a personal computer, and
Inform is much more complex than ZILCH.
If you mean, "Can an Apple II run games created by Inform?", I expect
that games created by older versions of Inform using Version 3 of the Z
machine can be run by interpreters available on the Apple II, but way
back then, Infocom games in Version 4, 5, or 6 did not run on the Apple
II, and modern versions of Inform, on the other hand, cannot create games in Version 3.
Of course, on the general principle that all Turing machines are
equivalent, I suppose it could be done in theory, but it would take
/lots/ of work, and would be painfully slow. Remember, even an iPhone is
many thousand times the computer an Apple II was.
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary coveredIf you mean the Inform compiler, no. Back when Apple IIs were
state-of-the-art, Infocom's proprietary ZILCH compiler, the nearest thing
to Inform at the time, ran on a mainframe, not a personal computer, and
Inform is much more complex than ZILCH.
If you mean, "Can an Apple II run games created by Inform?", I expect
that games created by older versions of Inform using Version 3 of the Z
machine can be run by interpreters available on the Apple II, but way
back then, Infocom games in Version 4, 5, or 6 did not run on the Apple
II, and modern versions of Inform, on the other hand, cannot create games in Version 3.
Of course, on the general principle that all Turing machines are
equivalent, I suppose it could be done in theory, but it would take
/lots/ of work, and would be painfully slow. Remember, even an iPhone is
many thousand times the computer an Apple II was.
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
Doug McIntyre
2013-08-03 13:52:44 UTC
Post by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
There's some info here..Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
http://www.filfre.net/2012/01/selling-zork/
There's a classic pic of somebody programming on a PDP-10 here..
Loading Image...
(Ken Thompson + Dennis Ritchie).
I choose that one because it pretty clearly shows one setup, as
opposed to a marketing photo of tons of cabinets.
I can't remember if they had a PDP-10 or PDP-11 in their office,
probably the later as it was more affordable, even if twas a smaller
system.
You'll have to remember that when personal computers were really first
taking off, they came with 16k of RAM and floppy disks to boot, load
programs and store data. OOTH, a PDP-10 maybe came with 512 kiloword
to 4 megaword of memory, and had disk packs (ie. removable hard
drives) to store data onto.
Development on a personal computer then would be painful. It wasn't
uncommon to program for them on a larger computer to produce output
for the personal computer since they had so little RAM and only worked
with floppies.
John W Kennedy
2013-08-03 18:55:27 UTC
Post by Doug McIntyre
http://www.filfre.net/2012/01/selling-zork/
There's a classic pic of somebody programming on a PDP-10 here..
http://nushackers.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/nerdpol-ken-den.jpg
(Ken Thompson + Dennis Ritchie).
I choose that one because it pretty clearly shows one setup, as
opposed to a marketing photo of tons of cabinets.
I can't remember if they had a PDP-10 or PDP-11 in their office,
probably the later as it was more affordable, even if twas a smaller
system.
A DECSYSTEM-20 (i.e., a PDP-10 equipped with the TOPS-20 operating system).Post by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
There's some info here..Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
http://www.filfre.net/2012/01/selling-zork/
There's a classic pic of somebody programming on a PDP-10 here..
http://nushackers.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/nerdpol-ken-den.jpg
(Ken Thompson + Dennis Ritchie).
I choose that one because it pretty clearly shows one setup, as
opposed to a marketing photo of tons of cabinets.
I can't remember if they had a PDP-10 or PDP-11 in their office,
probably the later as it was more affordable, even if twas a smaller
system.
Post by Doug McIntyre
You'll have to remember that when personal computers were really first
taking off, they came with 16k of RAM and floppy disks to boot, load
programs and store data. OOTH, a PDP-10 maybe came with 512 kiloword
to 4 megaword of memory, and had disk packs (ie. removable hard
drives) to store data onto.
Development on a personal computer then would be painful. It wasn't
uncommon to program for them on a larger computer to produce output
for the personal computer since they had so little RAM and only worked
with floppies.
Infocom's early interpreters had to be individually written in theYou'll have to remember that when personal computers were really first
taking off, they came with 16k of RAM and floppy disks to boot, load
programs and store data. OOTH, a PDP-10 maybe came with 512 kiloword
to 4 megaword of memory, and had disk packs (ie. removable hard
drives) to store data onto.
Development on a personal computer then would be painful. It wasn't
uncommon to program for them on a larger computer to produce output
for the personal computer since they had so little RAM and only worked
with floppies.
various systems' respective assembly languages.
--
John W Kennedy
"The pathetic hope that the White House will turn a Caligula into a
Marcus Aurelius is as naïve as the fear that ultimate power inevitably
corrupts."
-- James D. Barber (1930-2004)
John W Kennedy
"The pathetic hope that the White House will turn a Caligula into a
Marcus Aurelius is as naïve as the fear that ultimate power inevitably
corrupts."
-- James D. Barber (1930-2004)
Adam Thornton
2013-08-05 13:09:52 UTC
Post by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
Some of us would dispute the characterization of a PDP-10 as aInfocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
mainframe.
Adam
Andy Leighton
2013-08-05 15:11:42 UTC
Post by Adam Thornton
mainframe.
On what grounds? It was quite clearly a mainframe.Post by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
Some of us would dispute the characterization of a PDP-10 as aInfocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
mainframe.
Also I'm not entirely sure that Infocom actually owned a PDP-10 but
they certainly were pretty much focused on writing code for the PDP-10
in the beginning using time on machines owned by MIT and DEC.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
John W Kennedy
2013-08-05 15:47:28 UTC
Post by Andy Leighton
Also I'm not entirely sure that Infocom actually owned a PDP-10 but
they certainly were pretty much focused on writing code for the PDP-10
in the beginning using time on machines owned by MIT and DEC.
They ultimately owned at least two DECSYSTEM-20 systems, one reservedPost by Adam Thornton
mainframe.
On what grounds? It was quite clearly a mainframe.Post by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
Some of us would dispute the characterization of a PDP-10 as aInfocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
mainframe.
Also I'm not entirely sure that Infocom actually owned a PDP-10 but
they certainly were pretty much focused on writing code for the PDP-10
in the beginning using time on machines owned by MIT and DEC.
for Cornerstone. One source says that the first one was originally
owned by Joel Berez, and only purchased by Infocom itself in late 1982.
--
John W Kennedy
If Bill Gates believes in "intelligent design", why can't he apply it
to Windows?
John W Kennedy
If Bill Gates believes in "intelligent design", why can't he apply it
to Windows?
John W Kennedy
2013-08-05 15:13:06 UTC
Post by Adam Thornton
mainframe.
I have no DEC experience apart from using some non-DEC terminals inPost by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
Some of us would dispute the characterization of a PDP-10 as aInfocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
mainframe.
VT-100 emulation, so I can't judge on engineering grounds, but the
thing was big, and Infocom's particular machine is and was called a
"mainframe" in almost every source. It is interesting to note that the
designer of the PDP-10 console seems to have worked on an IBM 7090 or
7094 at some point.
--
John W Kennedy
A proud member of the reality-based community.
John W Kennedy
A proud member of the reality-based community.
Adam Thornton
2013-08-05 15:20:56 UTC
Post by John W Kennedy
VT-100 emulation, so I can't judge on engineering grounds, but the
thing was big, and Infocom's particular machine is and was called a
"mainframe" in almost every source. It is interesting to note that the
designer of the PDP-10 console seems to have worked on an IBM 7090 or
7094 at some point.
Grumble grumble overgrown minicomputer, but, yeah, fine, I concede thePost by Adam Thornton
mainframe.
I have no DEC experience apart from using some non-DEC terminals inPost by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
Some of us would dispute the characterization of a PDP-10 as aInfocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
mainframe.
VT-100 emulation, so I can't judge on engineering grounds, but the
thing was big, and Infocom's particular machine is and was called a
"mainframe" in almost every source. It is interesting to note that the
designer of the PDP-10 console seems to have worked on an IBM 7090 or
7094 at some point.
point.
Adam
Frank Furhter
2013-09-12 07:06:19 UTC
Post by Adam Thornton
mainframe.
Adam
The PDP-11 or the 10 as I recall (programmed on the former) was by noPost by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
Some of us would dispute the characterization of a PDP-10 as aInfocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
mainframe.
Adam
means called a mainframe. It was a high end mini, and that is the way
the cookie crumbled back then. Main frames were more like the CDC 6K or
above, and they required actual administrators.
John W Kennedy
2013-09-12 17:41:19 UTC
Post by Frank Furhter
means called a mainframe. It was a high end mini, and that is the way
the cookie crumbled back then. Main frames were more like the CDC 6K
or above, and they required actual administrators.
The fact remains that, then and now, "mainframe" is the word used byPost by Adam Thornton
mainframe.
Adam
The PDP-11 or the 10 as I recall (programmed on the former) was by noPost by a***@inbox.com
Infocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
Some of us would dispute the characterization of a PDP-10 as aInfocom had a mainframe? Wow. I don't think that DVD documentary covered
that. I would have loved to see how it was done. Developing on a mainframe,
that is.
mainframe.
Adam
means called a mainframe. It was a high end mini, and that is the way
the cookie crumbled back then. Main frames were more like the CDC 6K
or above, and they required actual administrators.
the folks at Infocom for their DECSystem-20s.
And, frankly, I've known undoubted mainframes of the era that were smaller.
--
John W Kennedy
"The first effect of not believing in God is to believe in anything...."
-- Emile Cammaerts, "The Laughing Prophet"
John W Kennedy
"The first effect of not believing in God is to believe in anything...."
-- Emile Cammaerts, "The Laughing Prophet"
x***@gmail.com
2013-08-10 05:22:26 UTC
Related question: is there a compiler for MacPlus? Playability of inform games on a MacPlus?
Thank you.
R
Thank you.
R
John W Kennedy
2013-08-12 17:37:59 UTC
Post by x***@gmail.com
Related question: is there a compiler for MacPlus? Playability of
inform games on a MacPlus?
I don't know offhand whether there is any sort of modern MacPlusRelated question: is there a compiler for MacPlus? Playability of
inform games on a MacPlus?
interpreter today, but the Infocom series as of 1984 had first-day
availablity on the original Mac.
--
John W Kennedy
"The grand art mastered the thudding hammer of Thor
And the heart of our lord Taliessin determined the war."
-- Charles Williams. "Mount Badon"
John W Kennedy
"The grand art mastered the thudding hammer of Thor
And the heart of our lord Taliessin determined the war."
-- Charles Williams. "Mount Badon"
Ander GM
2022-04-28 18:44:12 UTC
No, but with Puny Inform you can code Z-Machine games targeting the V3
version of the virtual machine, making your games playable on the Apple II.
version of the virtual machine, making your games playable on the Apple II.
Ander GM
2022-04-28 18:45:39 UTC
Also, I forgot, sorry:
https://github.com/johanberntsson/PunyInform
https://github.com/johanberntsson/PunyInform
John W Kennedy
2022-04-28 22:02:19 UTC
In any case, PunyInform is based on Inform 6, which is roughly as
different from Inform 7 as K&R C is from Swift with SwiftUI.
different from Inform 7 as K&R C is from Swift with SwiftUI.
--
John W. Kennedy
Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!
John W. Kennedy
Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!